Concerning Multiple References on Same Page Rule[]
Concerning the following rule:
"If a page contains multiple references to the same page elsewhere in the wiki, only the first should be marked as a link. Exception: If a reference is linked in the infobox, it may also be linked in the actual article."
Suggesting additional exceptions be added for any informational table or list. Since joining this wiki, I've seen multiple instances where this rule was invoked on informational tables and lists with the end result of diminishing the utility of a page for readers. Take the most recent example noticed, the Space Encounter page where all subsequent links to the item Terrifying Sample were removed from the page's primary information table. Informational tables and lists like that are used to look up whichever row is of current interest to a reader and all relevant information, including links, should be immediately accessible. No reader is going to think, "hmmm, maybe the item I'm looking for is farther up on the list" and then peruse the previous rows one by one on the off chance it might be there. By removing said links, the utility of the table was diminished for all users. No page's utility should ever be diminished for the sake of a style rule as it misses the point of what brings users to a wiki. The fix for this issue is simple, add all informational tables and lists to the current list of exception(s) for this rule. Ertosiangel (talk) 20:19, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- Hello - I'd like to jump on this topic... I certainly have had my times creating long pages with tables, lists, images, too many sections and of course duplicate links. I am no where close to perfect. Also, I understand every page is different on it's own so some of this might not apply to your concern exactly. I would like to use an example with probably the most used table in the NMS wiki (just a guess); the Planet & Moon table used on many Star System pages. I can see someone describing how a system has a great abundance of Sodium (with a link) in the summary and then in the Planet/Moon Table the first planet would have Sodium (with Link) but then once you get to the second planet that has Sodium the link is rather unneeded. My take would be if it is within a table or a single list like the Planet/Moon table there is no need for every instance of an item to have a link, as a table/list is a single informational item. The table/list is describing some sort of unified idea, otherwise why would they be in a table/list to begin with? As a reader I do feel table/lists are kinda their own thing and I may go to a page and jump right to said table, but I think people in general look at that table/list as a whole and not as single line as a separate entity. As a suggestion what if you had a list/table and it was all planets/areas/regions with Sodium; maybe an introduction sentence needs to be created to set up this table/list. The introduction sentence would say: This is all areas where there is Sodium: with a single link. Of course as I said, all pages are not created equal but this is my short take on the matter. thanks Intothedoor (talk) 18:13, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
- Using your specific example of Plant & Moon tables, I must disagree. My original planet and moon tables list all resources and originally included links to them all, including those that were double linked. When wiki community admin removed all of the double linked resources, it greatly diminished the utility of said tables as well as made them look incomplete (speaking as someone who has done web and graphics design and who knows how the average viewer sees and uses such things). Adding an intro sentence explaining where a specific resource would be is a step in the wrong direction as it would just add extra fluff spacing to a page; proper use of double links doesn't add any extra space, it merely increases the usefulness of the text already there. For similar examples, please peruse the extensive listings of resources and blueprints on this wiki as the vast majority contain significant double links packed into very short lists, and for good reason as it is what makes those pages useful. Gamers come to wikis because they are informationally useful and they can find what they need fast; expediting their search is the right move both for ease of use and for aesthetics.Ertosiangel (talk) 03:26, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
- I wonder, do you have an example of this in use within any other wiki? I just see a table as a whole (as a reader and editor); the single high-lit word within that table stands out more as something important enough to click for further information. If everything is link I feel it loses its purpose for being linked to begin with. Of course these are just editing choices... are there technical concerns? I am no computer whiz; Do too many links lag a web page? Intothedoor (talk) 07:12, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
- Examples would be myriad for lists and tables. Just quickly googling ideas for large lists and tables on Wikipedia I'm able to see the following examples (not sure how to keep the rest of this post indented, so the formatting is going to be off):
- I wonder, do you have an example of this in use within any other wiki? I just see a table as a whole (as a reader and editor); the single high-lit word within that table stands out more as something important enough to click for further information. If everything is link I feel it loses its purpose for being linked to begin with. Of course these are just editing choices... are there technical concerns? I am no computer whiz; Do too many links lag a web page? Intothedoor (talk) 07:12, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
- Using your specific example of Plant & Moon tables, I must disagree. My original planet and moon tables list all resources and originally included links to them all, including those that were double linked. When wiki community admin removed all of the double linked resources, it greatly diminished the utility of said tables as well as made them look incomplete (speaking as someone who has done web and graphics design and who knows how the average viewer sees and uses such things). Adding an intro sentence explaining where a specific resource would be is a step in the wrong direction as it would just add extra fluff spacing to a page; proper use of double links doesn't add any extra space, it merely increases the usefulness of the text already there. For similar examples, please peruse the extensive listings of resources and blueprints on this wiki as the vast majority contain significant double links packed into very short lists, and for good reason as it is what makes those pages useful. Gamers come to wikis because they are informationally useful and they can find what they need fast; expediting their search is the right move both for ease of use and for aesthetics.Ertosiangel (talk) 03:26, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
- Hello - I'd like to jump on this topic... I certainly have had my times creating long pages with tables, lists, images, too many sections and of course duplicate links. I am no where close to perfect. Also, I understand every page is different on it's own so some of this might not apply to your concern exactly. I would like to use an example with probably the most used table in the NMS wiki (just a guess); the Planet & Moon table used on many Star System pages. I can see someone describing how a system has a great abundance of Sodium (with a link) in the summary and then in the Planet/Moon Table the first planet would have Sodium (with Link) but then once you get to the second planet that has Sodium the link is rather unneeded. My take would be if it is within a table or a single list like the Planet/Moon table there is no need for every instance of an item to have a link, as a table/list is a single informational item. The table/list is describing some sort of unified idea, otherwise why would they be in a table/list to begin with? As a reader I do feel table/lists are kinda their own thing and I may go to a page and jump right to said table, but I think people in general look at that table/list as a whole and not as single line as a separate entity. As a suggestion what if you had a list/table and it was all planets/areas/regions with Sodium; maybe an introduction sentence needs to be created to set up this table/list. The introduction sentence would say: This is all areas where there is Sodium: with a single link. Of course as I said, all pages are not created equal but this is my short take on the matter. thanks Intothedoor (talk) 18:13, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gold_medal_awards
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_medal
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_Olympic_gold_medalists
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-played_video_games_by_player_count
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_websites
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_birds
- for examples on this wiki, please see most of the following: 55 raw materials, 36 resources with 64 additional pages under its subcategories, 32 consumables, 45 raw ingredients, 199 edible products, 266 base buildings, 63 technologies with 411 additional pages under its subcategories, and 346 blueprints. I am hesitant to bring attention to those pages with regards to this topic as this wiki would be greatly diminished should all of their double linked resources be removed for the sake of this overused style rule.
That was just a quick search only limited by the time willing to put into it and showing the first links that popped up, as linking each line is standard list and table formatting when aiming for user utility. Rare is the person who wants to or is willing to scroll up in a list or table or resort to using ctrl-f to find the link they need, even for small tables; it should be there from the start. As for technical concerns, a cursory google search shows lots of links used to be a concern decades back when the net was newer but isn't a concern with the modern net, for example: https://yoast.com/video/ask-yoast-internal-links/ Ertosiangel (talk) 22:59, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
- Another way of looking at this is to consider what would need to be done to enforce this rule in its entirety and in every case. Take this Discussion page, the way signatures are automatically created would need to be altered so that each time an editor's name is listed in a posted signature, only the first occurrence on a page is linked. Take a table that has sorting enabled, should this rule be invoked and all subsequent links on the table be removed. As soon as someone sorted any of the columns, that one link could end up anywhere on the table. There are good many reasons why no double link style rules are usually reserved solely for within a single paragraph or block of text.Ertosiangel (talk) 23:21, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
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Thank you both for your contributions to this discussion and for your varied viewpoints.
It should be made clear that this Best Practices document was developed as a joint project with the Gamepedia admin staff. As a result, the guidelines listed are not simply the personal rules of a single "community admin", but are both Gamepedia-guided and approved. I have discussed this matter extensively with several members of the current Gamepedia staff, and they are all in agreement that the statement regarding the use/non-use of duplicate links is acceptable as it stands. Specific exceptions can be (and have been) applied, as is obvious on numerous wiki pages. An excellent example are the pages containing links auto-generated by the PoC queries. However, there are many pages and situations where duplicate links are not required or desired. These links will continue to be adjusted, as they have been for the last four years.
Every wiki has a particular culture and style, and editors that wish to contribute should respect that structure, and follow the requested guidelines. When within the territory of any wiki, honor their rules, customs, and conventions. This discussion is now closed. Ddfairchild (talk) 05:33, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Class in the Infobox[]
Regarding
When creating pages for starships or Multi-tools, only put the basic model info into the infobox. For example, the Class of a ship is not necessary in the infobox as you are describing a "model" of a ship, not a specific instance. Once the infobox is filled out, add commentary on the page itself indicating that "this model was discovered on (location) as an A-class ship with bonuses of etc etc etc."
I would agree if this is a mediocre ship/Multi-tool, however, if this is a top-of-the-line - then class information should be provided. Example Sekino's Shimmering Pioneer - this maybe encountered in classes C, B, and A, and A class is top-of-the-line (38+12 slots - maximum possible in game for a fighter), so if an A-class with top-notch parameters is encountered this information should be included in the infobox. Reason is then a player will be able to use Starship Catalogue - Fighter to review all systems where the best fighters can be found, so they can visit them to acquire the desired ship. "Additional Information" could contain information on lower class parameters/loadouts of the ship, if desired. Trajos (talk) 22:08, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
- have added an exception phrase. Ddfairchild (talk) 22:22, 27 July 2020 (UTC)