UserProfile:Beerbelott

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Beerbelott

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Avatar for Ddfairchildd

1) PoC-Cook is now just Cook

2) PoC-Query Cooking is just Query Cooking

i.e. in both cases the "PoC-" has been removed.

Avatar for Beerbelott

Cool! Thanks for that!

See? That looks way cleaner in pages throughout the Wiki. This 2-steps transitions worked without broken content for the cooking templates.

Might be time to use the same process for the templates regarding crafting & refining?

If you agreed, I could set redirections up as I did with the cooking template to make sure the target templates work as expected.

We could uncouple & tackle the whole Cargo table name problem later on.

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

Yes, we can proceed with the crafting and refining. Here's what I'll need:

1) the old name

2) the new name 3) a way of defining a list of the pages for the bot to look at. Is there a specific category we can look at? (or maybe a couple).

Thanks!

Avatar for Trajos

Hi, any chance you could generate a page similar to Secure_Sites/Puzzles for Alien dialogues? File paths are: METADATA\REALITY\TABLES\NMS_DIALOG_GCALIENPUZZLETABLE.MBIN + LANGUAGE\NMS_LOC1_ENGLISH.MBIN ?

Avatar for Beerbelott

I could definitely look into that!

It all depends on the complexity of adapting current parsers I crafted to this case. Added to my "To Do" list

Thanks for the suggestion

Avatar for Trajos

Sounds good, thanks, having inspected the files it would appear they should be identical in structure to the ones you used for Manufacturing Facility (e.g. they also seem to have mood and biome etc), so potentially may work out of the box (after substituting new file names).

Avatar for Beerbelott

Well it would be one of the only times in my life a computer thingy would truly work "out of the box", so... I suspect burns & bruises along the ride.

I will tackle that eventually... no promises as to when though.

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

I believe the case here includes a name-change of the macros involved which is more than just merging. I worked with Beerbelott a bit when he first created these macros and at the time, the names were only temporary. Now that they have been in place for awhile, I believe the intent is to use a correct naming convention.

Avatar for Beerbelott

Correct: Enough of the ugly "Proof of Concept" prefix, which were meant as tests on the side of existing crafting/refining templates... as the name strongly indeicate!

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

RE the emails - I got both of those that you sent me, so we know the function itself is working properly. It sounds like it may be your email provider that is rejecting them for some reason? If you want to send me another email and include your actual email I can keep it on file for future reference. BTW, the message came from our HELP wiki system, not the NMS wiki emails (which is what I used to send to you)

Avatar for Beerbelott

Done what you suggested.

Yes: my own email server is configured to be stricly enforcing public banlists, and email delivery providers are at risk of relaying spam and ending up on said lists. GMail might be intentionally *not* enforcing those blaklists because they have the means to accept & manage a ton of spam: that's why you are receiving the emails from Gamepedia.

I prefer to deal with the problem at the source: if people wanna reach me, they'll have to use decent email services caring about not being flagged. :o)

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

If you are going to update all of the cooking pages to use the new macro, please hold off.

That creates an incredible number of pages for the admin team to review <g>

If you really think we need to change them, I can contact our GP admin and ask them to write a bot to change it.

Avatar for Beerbelott

Ah.

Went some 50 pages into that already. Wilco then...

Also note it was an opportunity to add the query for recipes list. Was useful in at least one case; It would have been better if all pages contained that right off the bat

Avatar for Beerbelott

WOuld doing that through the API be better? Or does that induce admin review too?

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

I believe any page change puts it on my recent-changes list

Avatar for Trajos

Is there a need to review every page by an admin for edits by an established editor? - I think we need to strike the balance between the amount of reviews done and the need to keep the wiki up-to-date. Too many reviews may unnecessarily hold off the wiki keeping the pace with the game, which would not be good. I would say someone who's in top 100 ranks in this wiki could be added to the "skip review" category perhaps?

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

Short answer: Yes, there is.

Long Answer: Yes, there's a need. Having done this for four years plus, and over 100k page reviews, I can tell you so without question.

Avatar for Trajos

I guess if you're adding more value to the wiki by doing reviews than by doing other stuff, or... at least just having fun - then agreed it's worth it.

Avatar for Trajos

Talking about changing an infobox macro - I'd agree with Ddfairchildd on this one that it's not the right approach to create a version 2 macro and change all 100 or so pages that use it from the current version 1 to your new version 2 one. A much better approach is - raise a request for admins to merge the changes from your new macro into the existing one, this is the place for such requests: No_Mans_Sky_Wiki:Admin_noticeboard

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

Per the icon change on Phase Beam (Atlas). Since this is an archived page of "what it was back then", I'd rather leave the icon at what it was when we archived the page. No problem changing the current Phase Beam page, but I'll back out the change to the Atlas Rises version. Thanks!

Later edit: OK, looks like you have been moving the old icon pages to new pages using the latest file name. I'm not sure this is the best solution. Couple of thoughts:

1) if we have an archived page (such as mentioned above), then we have lost the opportunity to truly see what the page looked like "back then" (since the file it was using no longer exists)

2) looking at the past history of a current page will no longer show us a true picture as again, the icon it used is no longer available under the original name.

The best option would be to simply add the new icon file to the wiki, and change the page that references it to use the new file. That way our history is maintained, while the latest-and-greatest is also available.

Thanks!

Avatar for Beerbelott

Redirect to a new page was needed here as it was JPEG -> PNG

I changed my way of doing things this wee-end, trying to leverage the "Upload a new version" option... Constantly improving y own process whenever I can :o)

Avatar for Beerbelott

I suggest the mentioned file to be effectively deleted and maybe repalced with a redirect to the new file if you really want to keep a reference to the old name somewhere... Which I am still to understand.

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

OK, here's what needs to happen.

1) if you are uploading better quality but retaining the name, just do the "upload a new version"

2) if the current file has an old/incorrect name, leave that file as-is. Upload your new file using the correct name, and change the current page to show the new name.

In either case, all you need to do is upload the new file. No file deletes, no redirects, no renaming needed.

Thanks!

Avatar for Beerbelott

OK that's itching my cleanup nerve, but I will follow this guideline. :oD

(Note I never had the ability to delete anything, though, merely *flagging* for deletion)

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

Correct - I should have specified "flag for deletion" <g>

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

The following is addressed to both of you. Your name-calling, arguing, and bickering WILL stop. And it will stop now. It has reached the point where the admin team at Gamepedia has noticed your activity. They are very close to issuing temporary bans on both of your accounts due to your disruption of normal wiki activity and flouting our wiki rules of decency as posted in our No Mans Sky Wiki:Explained - General Rules. I don't want this to happen as both of you provide very good content. So please take this as an honest request for you both to take the high road and end this NOW. Otherwise, I have no doubts that Gamepedia will step in.

Avatar for Beerbelott

Thank you for this. I cannot wait for the name-calling to stop indeed.

It is a relief to know this is now being taken care of & under scrutiny. It is the first time such a thing happens, amongst all places I have come to contribute to.

I hope things will be dealt with without passion, based on factual, tangible assets and far, far away from impugn motives. I always was, am & will be ready to face & explain any action I did and/or word I used, if need be.

Resuming normal operations...

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

This will be a partial reply as I'm still researching some things.

1) Comments can be deleted by the owner of the page, OR by the person that posted them.
2) The research I am doing is to see what happens to chained messages when the parent is deleted. My expectation is that the entire chain below the deleted message will also disappear.

As for your second question, I wish I had an answer. In an office environment, we all have an official manager we can go to who has legitimate authority to say "thus shall it be so." In a volunteer shared community like the wiki, we have to use the Cat on a Hot Tin Roof model and like Blanche, "depend on the kindness of strangers."

As a community admin, I can say "this is the way to do it", but in the end, it's the editors themselves who have to make the decision to follow the wiki guidelines or not to follow them. And to be decent, or not to be.

And for what it's worth, I am firmly in the camp that the stress from COVID and all its related events has made a big difference everywhere, even here in the wiki. There has been a noticeable increase in unhappy editors during the last six months and I can't wait for things to get back to normal :-(

Avatar for Beerbelott

Well this muppet deleted one comment on my wall, as well as some of his other comments (and yes it took the whole thread off my wall). No trace of those anymore. THat's not how change tracking shall be done, in a software all about it.

I actually was teached in schools how to debate & face other opinions. It was safe as in "we're here to learn", but toxic behaviours like refusing to debate or withdrawing was dealt with swiftly. Definitely not safe in "you're always right".

Avatar for Beerbelott

Talking levels <= high school, though... Maybe you were referring to lower levels. It takes time to have the tools to debate; children are just not ready yet, except for those being ahead in terms of maturity

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

I don't think change tracking on messaging is a requirement for a wiki, and it may not even be desirable. The intent of profile messages is communication, not documentation. If I want to be sure a message thread is retained, I'll put it on a talk page because those ARE going to be kept in the history.

Avatar for Atlantisking1985

Taught. You were taught in school, not 'teached'. That doesn't make any sense. Also, I'm a teacher. I teach debate, personal development, Maths & English. You could do with redoing some lessons in all of that.

Now stop harassing me, stop playing the victim when you are 100% the aggressor & move on with your life.

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

per the delete macro - if you can, add a reason why the page is eligible for deletion. That puts something on record in case someone happens to question it. You can do that by adding a bar after the word Delete in the macro, and entering a reason. Thanks

{{Delete|reason for deleting}}

Avatar for Beerbelott

I knew that, but seems a reason is added on actual deletion, I thought it was a mere indication targeted at the potential deleter. I trusted no indication was required for files having no recorded use, as it was pretty self-explanatory.

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

Well the point is that after the file is deleted, there's no way to tell how it was being used (or if). Just nice to have that additional documentation for deletions especially <g>

Avatar for Beerbelott

The reason for deletion sticks; no need for the deletion request's one?

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

The delete macro shows the reason the requester asked for it to be done. The reason for deletion is the admin's follow up.

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

quick note on links and when you need to use an alias and when you don't...

1) the wiki will automatically capitalize the first letter of the link text for you when looking for the page, but ONLY the first word. So you can use "curiosity" for a link and it will find Curiosity. However, if you use "storage augmentation" it won't find it, since it only capitalizes the Storage part of the name.

2) if all the alias does is add a plural, you don't need the alias. You can just use the page name as-is, then add an "s" after the final double brackets. Example (using < instead of square brackets so you can see the text):

<<Hotspot>>s instead of <<Hotspot|Hotspots>>

Thanks!

Avatar for Beerbelott

Thanks for the reminder. You already told me that in the past but my template to generate stub Wiki page had not been updated yet. I will address that right now.

It does not seem the "plural" part of the engine handles locales like curiosity -> curiosities, though... Does it?

Avatar for Ddfairchildd

Correct - it won't change tense. It just takes whatever you tack on afterwards and adds it to the page name. (so you could add "ed" for example just as well as "s")

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